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bingstudent
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Originally Posted by joemama View Post
Yes, new laws are the answer to all of our ills.

Contrary to what all of you living out in gait's gulch seem to believe, laws are the necessary foundation of consumer protection.
Old 08-12-2009, 07:47 PM bingstudent is offline  
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bingstudent
I am an idiot!
 
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Originally Posted by Electrikfuzz050 View Post
No, I'm deciding what I want to pay for and what I don't. I have no obligation to pay for someone's health care.

Assuming it's totally true that you have no obligation to pay for someone's health care, you must realize that you already pay for it right? Why wouldn't you want whichever system lowers the amount you have to pay into the pool to provide care for the uninsured??? This is why the conservatives can't win this debate, because you're so eager to cut off your nose to spite your face, that the political middle has asked "where the fuck did these crazies come from?"
Old 08-12-2009, 07:50 PM bingstudent is offline  
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Electrikfuzz050
 
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Originally Posted by bingstudent View Post
Assuming it's totally true that you have no obligation to pay for someone's health care, you must realize that you already pay for it right? Why wouldn't you want whichever system lowers the amount you have to pay into the pool to provide care for the uninsured??? This is why the conservatives can't win this debate, because you're so eager to cut off your nose to spite your face, that the political middle has asked "where the fuck did these crazies come from?"

I've stated numerous times in this thread that the only health care that I believe the government should be paying for is emergency care of fatal injuries.
Old 08-12-2009, 07:52 PM Electrikfuzz050 is offline  
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bingstudent
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Originally Posted by Electrikfuzz050 View Post
I've stated numerous times in this thread that the only health care that I believe the government should be paying for is emergency care of fatal injuries.

Considering your proposed solution will never come into existence, what's wrong with admitting that moving the uninsured to an actual insurance policy is the best step to take right now, considering our how broken the current system is?
Old 08-12-2009, 07:57 PM bingstudent is offline  
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Electrikfuzz050
 
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Considering your proposed solution will never come into existence, what's wrong with admitting that moving the uninsured to an actual insurance policy is the best step to take right now, considering our how broken the current system is?

Because having a public option is a step away from my proposed solution, and would be quite irreversible.
Old 08-12-2009, 08:02 PM Electrikfuzz050 is offline  
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Gibonius
 
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Originally Posted by Electrikfuzz050 View Post
No, I'm deciding what I want to pay for and what I don't. I have no obligation to pay for someone's health care.

I say we have a societal obligation to treat serious injuries for people who can't afford it. If the majority of the country agrees with me and passes that into law, then you have an obligation to pay for their health care.

In any case, if you're going to stand there and make the case that "No money = no treatment", you don't really get to complain about the idea of potential rationing in a government system, since your ideal is infinitely more draconian.

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrikfuzz050 View Post
Because having a public option is a step away from my proposed solution, and would be quite irreversible.

Your proposed option is never going to happen, because doctors find it unethical to let people go untreated in non-life threatening emergencies. That's pretty much never going to change. Someone is going to end up paying for these things, and right now, it's everyone. Give those people insurance, and it'll average the costs out better.
Old 08-12-2009, 08:13 PM Gibonius is offline  
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Electrikfuzz050
 
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I say we have a societal obligation to treat serious injuries for people who can't afford it. If the majority of the country agrees with me and passes that into law, then you have an obligation to pay for their health care.

In any case, if you're going to stand there and make the case that "No money = no treatment", you don't really get to complain about the idea of potential rationing in a government system, since your ideal is infinitely more draconian.

What I said was no money = no treatment other than fatal injuries.

Your proposed option is never going to happen, because doctors find it unethical to let people go untreated in non-life threatening emergencies. That's pretty much never going to change. Someone is going to end up paying for these things, and right now, it's
everyone. Give those people insurance, and it'll average the costs out better.
I find it unethical to be forced to pay for someone's health care.

I have no moral obligation to pay for anyone's health care, and believe me, there's a ton of people that would practice tax resistance if this law comes is passed.
Old 08-12-2009, 08:40 PM Electrikfuzz050 is offline  
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Gibonius
 
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I have no moral obligation to pay for anyone's health care, and believe me, there's a ton of people that would practice tax resistance if this law comes is passed.

You're paying for their care RIGHT NOW if you have health insurance. You might not like it, but that is the way it is.
Old 08-12-2009, 08:47 PM Gibonius is offline  
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Electrikfuzz050
 
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You're paying for their care RIGHT NOW if you have health insurance. You might not like it, but that is the way it is.

Just because I'm paying for it doesn't mean I agree with it.
Old 08-12-2009, 08:48 PM Electrikfuzz050 is offline  
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imsoocool2
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I found it curious a while back when Natasha Richardson (the actress, wife of Liam Neeson) was hurt while skiing in Canada...her family decided to fly her to New York for treatment even though her condition was serious enough that travel wasn't a good idea. Not saying that every part of the Canadian healthcare system is inferior to the US...but I've had contact with Canadians who aren't too high on the system. Of course, when you have no healthcare at all, (as is the case with many Americans) then anything would be better than nothing.

Americans choosing to get treated in the states. It's dumb to think we couldn't of treated them. I have two uncles who are doctors and they've always said our system is on par with any other one in the world if not better. Sure maybe we don't have the latest x-ray of the market 2 weeks before you guys but that's because we don't have the economy for it.

People also feel good about providing health care for the poor you know.. I don't feel "ripped off" like you all seem to think.
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Old 08-13-2009, 04:07 AM imsoocool2 is offline  
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joemama
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Americans choosing to get treated in the states. It's dumb to think we couldn't of treated them. I have two uncles who are doctors and they've always said our system is on par with any other one in the world if not better. Sure maybe we don't have the latest x-ray of the market 2 weeks before you guys but that's because we don't have the economy for it.

People also feel good about providing health care for the poor you know.. I don't feel "ripped off" like you all seem to think.
Natasha Richardson is British and Liam Neeson is Irish iirc. Both should be very familiar with public healthcare, yet I doubt either of them has used the same healthcare system that the average UK citizen uses in years...if ever. When people who are wealthy and live in countries with "free" healthcare choose to come to the US for anything more than a cold....it kind of makes you wonder. Yes, I realize that people with money can get treatment that may not be covered by insurance for the the average American..but eventually those high-end treatments will come down in cost and make their way to the level of the average citizen.
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Old 08-13-2009, 07:54 AM joemama is offline  
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Electrikfuzz050
 
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Originally Posted by imsoocool2 View Post
Americans choosing to get treated in the states. It's dumb to think we couldn't of treated them. I have two uncles who are doctors and they've always said our system is on par with any other one in the world if not better. Sure maybe we don't have the latest x-ray of the market 2 weeks before you guys but that's because we don't have the economy for it.

People also feel good about providing health care for the poor you know.. I don't feel "ripped off" like you all seem to think.

Have your uncles ever practiced medicine in the US?

And I don't give a shit if it would make you fucking high, I don't want to pay for anyone else's health care, I don't expect it from other people either, and forcing people to pay for the poor man's health care because you want to feel good is completely unjust to the people that work for a living.
Old 08-13-2009, 08:24 AM Electrikfuzz050 is offline  
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imsoocool2
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Originally Posted by Electrikfuzz050 View Post
Have your uncles ever practiced medicine in the US?

And I don't give a shit if it would make you fucking high, I don't want to pay for anyone else's health care, I don't expect it from other people either, and forcing people to pay for the poor man's health care because you want to feel good is completely unjust to the people that work for a living.

Not good but it just feels right.

Also my uncles chose to stay in Canada, both work in Montreal at two seperate hospitals. Never really got into details with them but they said before that they could get a much better pay in the states, but chose to stay (might be for family reasons or they just like Quebec in general. Montreal is a nice place to live).
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Old 08-13-2009, 12:03 PM imsoocool2 is offline  
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TheMorlock
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Originally Posted by imsoocool2 View Post
Not good but it just feels right.

Also my uncles chose to stay in Canada, both work in Montreal at two seperate hospitals. Never really got into details with them but they said before that they could get a much better pay in the states, but chose to stay (might be for family reasons or they just like Quebec in general. Montreal is a nice place to live).

Unless you are a heart patient and have to wait 45-80 days for bypass surgery.
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Old 08-13-2009, 12:08 PM TheMorlock is offline  
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Electrikfuzz050
 
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Originally Posted by imsoocool2 View Post
Not good but it just feels right.

Also my uncles chose to stay in Canada, both work in Montreal at two seperate hospitals. Never really got into details with them but they said before that they could get a much better pay in the states, but chose to stay (might be for family reasons or they just like Quebec in general. Montreal is a nice place to live).

HOLD THE FUCK ON EVERYONE. WE SHOULD ALL GIVE OUR MONEY TO POOR PEOPLE BECAUSE IT MAKES THIS GUY FEEL GOOD

I guess the government should pass some legislation that makes it mandatory to throw money at bums on street corners too.
Old 08-13-2009, 01:48 PM Electrikfuzz050 is offline  
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