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xxmsaxx
 
wanted to speak my mind and didnt know where else to post

Ok so keep this down :P, but I think Im finally finding my way into this whole Christ and god thing. Which is strange because I have always considered myself an agnostic. So bear with me when I tell you what Ive felt and how I think I have come to accept Christ in connection to the faith that gives hope and a general good feeling inside. This may help you out when or if you ever meet someone who questions or if you have a search in your self.





And again forgive me if you donít give a rats ass





First were going to take god, I have always believed that we did not come from nothing, I believe evolution, but still the question remains how did that happen? How did the earth get here so cells could change and eventually evolve into more complex creatures? The answer for me is that it is the natural order of things. Just as the water flows clockwise in the bowl and flowers know what color to grow so that bees see them and pollinateÖ.This order that is all around us is what I feel is god. If god did not exist then chaos would reign an. I donít see some guy sitting on a cloud with angels and some dude with horns, I see the order that makes the natural world work the way we understand with our 5 senses and chaos which I akin to forces that tears down this order. This is the human idea of Good and Evil.Heaven and Hell, God and Satin.





I have always believed that but my big problem came with the idea that Christ is the son of god, Mary had a virgin baby, someone parted a giant body of water, no one has any copies of the ten commandments, or noahs ark, or the cross he was put on, or any other artifact of the Judaic/Christian faith. I believe my problem was in how I choose to interpret these things which because of my scientific realist personality was very literal and I am just one of those people that need facts. I know humans canít have babies without having sex and I will never believe otherwise.





So as to Christ being the son of god here is how I feel now if I am to believe what is trying to be taught by the faith in my own personal understanding. Jesus was real, he existed and was put to death because his teaching made the Jews fear losing their hold on religion and Romans because they had a hard time controlling the Jews in Palestine as it was let alone some new guy whom even the Jews did not like.



We are all children of God. Because out of the order that is god we are born. Jesus is just like me and just like you. He was born from the order, he is the Son of God and he chose to teach what he felt inside and never EVER did he renounce his personal beliefs which he pulled from this order that is god we live in. As to the facts of him being born of a virgin and such I donít believe but I donít think it matters, nor do I believe that the sea was parted, but again it doesnít matter. Now I see the bible as more small relevance to actual occurrences and more of a moral guide to teach the values that are needed to have a kingdom of god, aka a kingdom of order and stability which we can understand and live in without suffering.




I guess thatís it, doesnít seem like much, but when I think of the relation of god to jesus in that way its seems to offer a peace to me. Jesus makes me proud to be a man. Jesus stood up for what he felt inside, the word of god is not some literal word, but rather what Jesus pulled form that order of things I call God. He believed he had a good idea, and taught it and never let up, yet those who , for their own reasons did not want him teaching killed him, therefore he died from the sins of man and deserves credit.



I wont get into my problems with the church regarding their bending the ideas to the political situation of the era, but none the less this way of thinking has helped me make a connection with Christ that I wanted but could never get.

cheers.
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Old 09-12-2007, 04:10 PM xxmsaxx is offline  
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Mr. Marbles
 
Prepare for a lashing by 18-25 year olds who will be believers in 10-15 years
Old 09-12-2007, 04:15 PM Mr. Marbles is offline  
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Straw Man
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great

well, ttyl
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Old 09-12-2007, 04:20 PM Straw Man is offline  
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bobsmith
 
Here's what I don't get. You understandably reject the more fantastic stories of the Bible as implausible. You pretty much reject the Bible and what it says about Jesus.

But then you make up your own interpretation of Jesus, God, and anything else in between to fit how you see the universe. You haven't "accepted Christ" at all. If you want to believe in God, I don't see why you've coerced yourself into being some sort of pseudo-Christian.

You don't have to become a card-carrying member of a major religion to believe in a higher power.

Quote:
The answer for me is that it is the natural order of things. Just as the water flows clockwise in the bowl and flowers know what color to grow so that bees see them and pollinateÖ.This order that is all around us is what I feel is god.
There's nothing natural about God. By their very definitions, order brought by a supernatural being cannot be natural. Your line about chaos without God suggests you believe that chaos is natural, not order.

And that begs the question - since you believe that we did not come from nothing, how could there ever be chaos? Do you believe that God brought just Earth into being, or the entire universe? And if it was the universe, then we did in fact come from nothing, and chaos could never have reigned.

But maybe you just didn't word it very well.
Old 09-12-2007, 04:31 PM bobsmith is offline  
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xxmsaxx
 
I don't have all the answers I seek, but every time I ask a die hard baptist or Catholic about this or that concerning religion they seem to want to quote the bible. I guess by natural order I mean the just the base fact that we exist and stuff works the way it does (that which humans have figured out and that which we have not) to me the idea of chaos on a spiritual level is not fireballs coming from the sky but a breakdown of all the laws that create reality and in that sense I do not believe we have ever seen true chaos or know even how to define it anymore than we can define all the laws that create the order we know.

And again this kind of stuff is hard to put in words for me because I dont understand it all in my head myself, and I have read many history lessons about many religions and my belief is that the teachings and interpretations of all religions reflect the times they are in. I do not wish to be a card carrying member of a major religions but I do seek a personal peace with what has happened in the worlds history and the place of one man by the name of Jesus in that history. I don think its pseudo christian to have a personal view of god and jesus and reject the teachings of the main stream church.

I dont look to this religion for validation from other men. I look for validation from the one who is pulling the stings when my time comes.
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Old 09-12-2007, 04:53 PM xxmsaxx is offline  
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Xayd
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobsmith View Post

There's nothing natural about God. By their very definitions, order brought by a supernatural being cannot be natural. Your line about chaos without God suggests you believe that chaos is natural, not order.

what if there is? what defines supernatural? what if your god exists and he is, in fact, just another organism who has a means of ordering that which lacks order?

not that i believe any of this, mind you, i'm just pointing out your flaws for you.

we can only see a tiny portion of our universe. what we consider supernatural might be quite normal elsewhere, assuming there is something supernatural at the root of it all, by your definition. to believe in the literal christian interpretation of the earth's origin is to force upon yourself a good bit of ignorance. it's earth-centric, but we've known for centuries that the earth isn't the center of anything. if you want to accept the explanation of the christian god in this day and age you have to do so with the knowledge that the christian god might be a lesser one, and another supernatural being somewhere up the food chain might have created your supernatural being.

either that or just be ignorant, of course.

and on the point of "believing in 10-15 years"...

people have a need in later life to feel like they'll be remembered, the fact that your life is largely insignificant in the grand scheme of things is hard for most people to swallow. hence, religion. and i would wager that the same balance of chemicals in your brain caused by a car salesman handing you the keys are the ones that produce that awe inspiring feeling you get in church that you and your friends get it and everyone else doesn't.
Old 09-12-2007, 05:24 PM Xayd is offline  
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Soybomb
 
Oh religion I love you. When science eventually destroys the religious answers you roll the science up and make it into god again. Now evolution is possible, but god is to get credit for it.

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I believe evolution, but still the question remains how did that happen? How did the earth get here so cells could change and eventually evolve into more complex creatures? The answer for me is that it is the natural order of things.
Thats convenient. Have you looked into possible explanations that might be more in depth than "it just is?"
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Old 09-12-2007, 08:54 PM Soybomb is offline  
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bobsmith
 
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not that i believe any of this, mind you, i'm just pointing out your flaws for you.

well thank god you're around





No, I get what you're saying, and I sort of agree. I'm not religious myself, so when I get into these discussions I pull things out of my ass. And why not? So do they.

My comments were more of a "Hey buddy, are you sure of all this?" If he is, that's fine with me. I'm the last person that should be giving advice on this sort of shit. It's just the OP didn't make a lot of sense to me.
Old 09-12-2007, 08:59 PM bobsmith is offline  
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UID=growler
 
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You conveniently pick and chose what made you feel "good" from Christianity, and rejected what didn't seem to make sense. You also accept some general scientific concepts, but as soon as you get to something you don't understand you are willing to put God into the equation. It sounds like you have not really done much study of the Bible or science and just decided to rationalize the knowledge you do have to make yourself feel self justified.
Old 09-12-2007, 09:00 PM UID=growler is offline  
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Xayd
 
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well thank god you're around





No, I get what you're saying, and I sort of agree. I'm not religious myself, so when I get into these discussions I pull things out of my ass. And why not? So do they.

My comments were more of a "Hey buddy, are you sure of all this?" If he is, that's fine with me. I'm the last person that should be giving advice on this sort of shit. It's just the OP didn't make a lot of sense to me.

that was a mistake on my part, i mistakenly mixed up your post with the "10-15 years you'll be a believer" guy and thought they were the same person.

my bad.
Old 09-12-2007, 09:42 PM Xayd is offline  
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The newagian channelers believe that on september 11 (2 days ago) a new cosmological energy was introduced to earth that will make more people come to realize the true nature of spirituality.

Jesus Christ was just a man
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Old 09-13-2007, 04:46 AM ry_goody is offline  
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Escaped Gorilla Genitals
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UID=30151 View Post
You conveniently pick and chose what made you feel "good" from Christianity, and rejected what didn't seem to make sense. You also accept some general scientific concepts, but as soon as you get to something you don't understand you are willing to put God into the equation. It sounds like you have not really done much study of the Bible or science and just decided to rationalize the knowledge you do have to make yourself feel self justified.

pretty much

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Marbles View Post
Prepare for a lashing by 18-25 year olds who will be believers in 10-15 years
Thanks for the insight resident retarded bigot guy.
Old 09-13-2007, 07:23 AM Escaped Gorilla Genitals is offline  
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xxmsaxx
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by UID=30151 View Post
You conveniently pick and chose what made you feel "good" from Christianity, and rejected what didn't seem to make sense. You also accept some general scientific concepts, but as soon as you get to something you don't understand you are willing to put God into the equation. It sounds like you have not really done much study of the Bible or science and just decided to rationalize the knowledge you do have to make yourself feel self justified.


Yes, I am willing to put God into the equation for that which I do not understand along with that which I do understand. This is not a failsafe reasoning because I feel as if all of a sudden "I HAVE BEEN SAVED AND SEEN THE LIGHT" rather how I have always believed that there is a greater power that made all this.

I reject many of the teachings because your right they don't make sense. I think they were just embellishments of the truth meant to make things seem more miraculous then perhaps they really were so that more folks would follow and make the religion stronger. Like I said I think the problem is the literal interpretation of the Bible folks use to both defend their beliefs, condemn other beliefs, and that same literal interpretation is what I used to attack Christianity.

Jesus was just a man, but he was a great man. I believe god to be the everything that pulls the strings. So by that way of thinking we are all children god just like Jesus was. What makes him stand out in the context of this discussion is his role as the person who founded Christianity with his teachings. Just like I sit here and tell you I am the son of god and I know right from wrong so did he thousands of yrs ago. I will tell you I don't believe the stories were told completely true as to the turning water to wine and all that good stuff, but I do strongly believe he was a man who carried hope to the hopeless, and changed a great many lives with his ideas. How accurately recorded are his teachings today compared to when he first spoke them????Who knows???? I have in fact studied a ton of religion ( I mean I have not made a career out of it but I have read the bible, some of the kuran, and tons of sites trying to put the gopel in thier own words) and use my common sense of sociology to form my own opinions about what may have really happened. I am a realist I know something must have happened in order for the religion to be what it has become, and have millions of followers. I think a personal understanding of Jesus's teachings is what being Christian is not some strict regiment of Dogma dictated by the church along with an offering plate.

I am not going to start going to some church every Sunday confessing my Sins and asking for forgiveness for what Roman soldiers did thousands of years ago, but I will respect the man for doing what what all men are capable of: Living good lives, helping those in need with no concern for ourselves and to be humble for the blessings we receive from the earth, and being strong when the hard times come that make us question our resolve.
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\....\..../..../
..................
Work for pay and pay for freedom

The unseemly link between money and political influence is the dark side of capitalism.

Last edited by xxmsaxx; 09-13-2007 at 01:58 PM..
Old 09-13-2007, 01:48 PM xxmsaxx is offline  
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TheMorlock
Contrary to my previous title I never fucked Inf's mother
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xxmsaxx View Post
Ok so keep this down :P, but I think Im finally finding my way into this whole Christ and god thing. Which is strange because I have always considered myself an agnostic. So bear with me when I tell you what Ive felt and how I think I have come to accept Christ in connection to the faith that gives hope and a general good feeling inside. This may help you out when or if you ever meet someone who questions or if you have a search in your self.





And again forgive me if you donít give a rats ass





First were going to take god, I have always believed that we did not come from nothing, I believe evolution, but still the question remains how did that happen? How did the earth get here so cells could change and eventually evolve into more complex creatures? The answer for me is that it is the natural order of things. Just as the water flows clockwise in the bowl and flowers know what color to grow so that bees see them and pollinateÖ.This order that is all around us is what I feel is god. If god did not exist then chaos would reign an. I donít see some guy sitting on a cloud with angels and some dude with horns, I see the order that makes the natural world work the way we understand with our 5 senses and chaos which I akin to forces that tears down this order. This is the human idea of Good and Evil.Heaven and Hell, God and Satin.





I have always believed that but my big problem came with the idea that Christ is the son of god, Mary had a virgin baby, someone parted a giant body of water, no one has any copies of the ten commandments, or noahs ark, or the cross he was put on, or any other artifact of the Judaic/Christian faith. I believe my problem was in how I choose to interpret these things which because of my scientific realist personality was very literal and I am just one of those people that need facts. I know humans canít have babies without having sex and I will never believe otherwise.





So as to Christ being the son of god here is how I feel now if I am to believe what is trying to be taught by the faith in my own personal understanding. Jesus was real, he existed and was put to death because his teaching made the Jews fear losing their hold on religion and Romans because they had a hard time controlling the Jews in Palestine as it was let alone some new guy whom even the Jews did not like.



We are all children of God. Because out of the order that is god we are born. Jesus is just like me and just like you. He was born from the order, he is the Son of God and he chose to teach what he felt inside and never EVER did he renounce his personal beliefs which he pulled from this order that is god we live in. As to the facts of him being born of a virgin and such I donít believe but I donít think it matters, nor do I believe that the sea was parted, but again it doesnít matter. Now I see the bible as more small relevance to actual occurrences and more of a moral guide to teach the values that are needed to have a kingdom of god, aka a kingdom of order and stability which we can understand and live in without suffering.




I guess thatís it, doesnít seem like much, but when I think of the relation of god to jesus in that way its seems to offer a peace to me. Jesus makes me proud to be a man. Jesus stood up for what he felt inside, the word of god is not some literal word, but rather what Jesus pulled form that order of things I call God. He believed he had a good idea, and taught it and never let up, yet those who , for their own reasons did not want him teaching killed him, therefore he died from the sins of man and deserves credit.



I wont get into my problems with the church regarding their bending the ideas to the political situation of the era, but none the less this way of thinking has helped me make a connection with Christ that I wanted but could never get.

cheers.

depends on hemisphere

"My God Why Hast Thou Forsaken Me"

parthenogenesis is unlikely but still possible in humans.

bees pollinate thousands of different color flowers. Kill the bees and all the plants that depend on them die. Kill 99% of the flowers and the bees live.


etc etc

in other words there is a vast difference between simplicity and simplistic.
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Old 09-14-2007, 02:00 AM TheMorlock is offline  
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TheMorlock
Contrary to my previous title I never fucked Inf's mother
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xayd View Post
and i would wager that the same balance of chemicals in your brain caused by a car salesman handing you the keys are the ones that produce that awe inspiring feeling you get in church that you and your friends get it and everyone else doesn't.

actually there is an area that some have dubbed the Religion area of the brain. look it up its kind of cool. any thoughts processed through this area gives a sense of well being and awe with a TOTAL lack of critical thinking according to non religious researchers.

The religious that study this state it is proof of god/that we have an area of the brain that is Designed to process/deal with divine concepts.

Behaviorists laugh in their sleeves. I would assume its the same area that handles political hack thinking.
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Old 09-14-2007, 02:09 AM TheMorlock is offline  
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