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endscape
 
Permanently pinning a suppressor to an AR, thoughts?

So I live in Washington state.

That means a few things:
1. Short barreled rifles are not legal, save for law enforcement personnel. Which I am not.
2. Suppressors ARE legal to own, mount on a firearm, but not to fire through. Lets ignore that last part.

I, however, desire a suppressed rifle that will work in a close quarters scenario. Plus it would just be plain awesome. Should this plan work, I will probably build a second one in .308 just for giggles.

My plan is as follows:

- Source a 11, 11.5, 12, or 12.5 inch upper, probably from NOVESKE or POF, or some other quality upper. Preferably piston driven, but its not required.
- Get a suppressor that adds enough length to bring it over the 16.1in minimum, as well as mounts via threads, not a quick disconnect.
- Have a talented gunsmith figure out a way to permanently pin the suppressor to the rifle.
- Put my newly complete suppressed notSBR upper on a snazzy Spikes Tactical or Aero Precision lower and have fun.

Please don't ask what I'm going to do with a rifle that I cant legally shoot. I'm worried about the legal to own part, as well as if such a thing is possible, or would be functional. I have submitted a letter to the ATF verifying the legality of what I'm doing, and wont proceed until I hear back from them.

This is pretty much a flight of fancy, and would be a very expensive little experiment.
Thoughts? Comments? Anyone done anything like this, seen anyone do it, or known anyone that's done it?
Old 03-24-2011, 02:35 AM endscape is offline  
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pyramid
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don't suppressors need to be taken off and cleaned internally from time to time?

also it might be hard to claim that a permanently attached suppressor is not meant to be fired unless the upper was made unable to fire.
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Old 03-24-2011, 03:07 AM pyramid is offline  
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pyromania
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This thread points towards it being legal.

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/i.../t-478181.html

You should check with the suppressor manufacturers to see if their product will work on a short barrel. With some suppressors, mounting it on a SBR will void the warranty. There is a greater risk of a baffle strike with shorter barrels.
Old 03-24-2011, 03:45 AM pyromania is offline  
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Chilly
 
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This thread points towards it being legal.

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/i.../t-478181.html

You should check with the suppressor manufacturers to see if their product will work on a short barrel. With some suppressors, mounting it on a SBR will void the warranty. There is a greater risk of a baffle strike with shorter barrels.

Technically not a problem if he never fires it
Old 03-24-2011, 05:19 AM Chilly is offline  
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McMahan
 
I'm sure this is legal- really no different than a perm attached flash hider or barrel shroud to hit the min. legal length. Of course right now you wouldn't legally be able to shoot it but I'm sure you have that figured out.

That being said I would definitely not do it unless money/time is really no object here and you can replace the setup at will if somethnig goes wrong. No way to service the suppressor effectively once it is perm attached. Not to mention all the shit that can go wrong with suppressors- erosion of blast baffle, baffle strikes, etc. Hard to make adjustments or fix problems with a suppressor can't be removed.
Old 03-24-2011, 10:58 AM McMahan is offline  
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NFA law was changed a few months ago. Anything manufactured after such and such date cannot have a barrel attachment (flashhider, muzzlebrake, supressor) to make a shorter barrel legal. It happend mid 2010 iirc
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Old 03-24-2011, 02:13 PM Rancidpunk666 is offline  
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McMahan
 
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NFA law was changed a few months ago. Anything manufactured after such and such date cannot have a barrel attachment (flashhider, muzzlebrake, supressor) to make a shorter barrel legal. It happend mid 2010 iirc

I have not heard of this- do you have a link to this ruling? I went to the ATF site and found this info-

http://www.atf.gov/publications/down...-chapter-2.pdf

"The ATF procedure for measuring barrel length is to measure from the closed bolt (or breech-face) to the furthermost end of the barrel or permanently attached muzzle device. Permanent methods of attachment include full-fusion gas or electric steel-seam welding, high-temperature (1100░F) silver soldering, or blind pinning with the pin head welded over. Barrels are measured by inserting a dowel rod into the barrel until the rod stops against the bolt or breech-face. The rod is then marked at the furthermost end of the barrel or permanently attached muzzle device, withdrawn from the barrel, and measured."

If they had outlawed perm. attach it seems like the gun community would have been up in arms over this shit- I'm not saying it didn't happen but would like to see a definitive link on this for confirmation.
Old 03-24-2011, 03:20 PM McMahan is offline  
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endscape
 
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Originally Posted by Rancidpunk666 View Post
NFA law was changed a few months ago. Anything manufactured after such and such date cannot have a barrel attachment (flashhider, muzzlebrake, supressor) to make a shorter barrel legal. It happend mid 2010 iirc

...what? Link?

Quote:
Originally Posted by McMahan View Post
I'm sure this is legal- really no different than a perm attached flash hider or barrel shroud to hit the min. legal length. Of course right now you wouldn't legally be able to shoot it but I'm sure you have that figured out.

That being said I would definitely not do it unless money/time is really no object here and you can replace the setup at will if somethnig goes wrong. No way to service the suppressor effectively once it is perm attached. Not to mention all the shit that can go wrong with suppressors- erosion of blast baffle, baffle strikes, etc. Hard to make adjustments or fix problems with a suppressor can't be removed.

The only thing I can think of, is if you know where the pins are, you could drill, remove, and repin the suppressor as needed. This would also be dependent upon finding a gunsmith willing to fire and tune the weapon before pinning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pyromania View Post
This thread points towards it being legal.

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/i.../t-478181.html

You should check with the suppressor manufacturers to see if their product will work on a short barrel. With some suppressors, mounting it on a SBR will void the warranty. There is a greater risk of a baffle strike with shorter barrels.

I've talked to a few manufacturers, and most of them seem to be okay with the suppressor + SBR combination. Most of them have suppressors meant specifically to work with SBRs. I would almost certainly be voiding the warranty anyway, as the suppressor would have to be modified to support pinning.

In other news, my tax stamps got here yesterday, so I get to go get my suppressors for my AR and 1911. Huzzah!
Old 03-25-2011, 06:59 AM endscape is offline  
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never mind, what i was refering to was shot guns.

you should be fine doing that, hwoever I would highly highly recommend storing the lower reciever off sight during barrel modifcations
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Old 03-25-2011, 09:21 AM Rancidpunk666 is offline  
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McMahan
 
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...what? Link?



The only thing I can think of, is if you know where the pins are, you could drill, remove, and repin the suppressor as needed. This would also be dependent upon finding a gunsmith willing to fire and tune the weapon before pinning.



I've talked to a few manufacturers, and most of them seem to be okay with the suppressor + SBR combination. Most of them have suppressors meant specifically to work with SBRs. I would almost certainly be voiding the warranty anyway, as the suppressor would have to be modified to support pinning.

In other news, my tax stamps got here yesterday, so I get to go get my suppressors for my AR and 1911. Huzzah!

Sweet, what cans did you end up with?

Yeah dude I don't know- it really depends how much you want this setup I guess. Drilling it out if there is an issue could be done I suppose but probably wouldn't be the most ideal. Even if you got everything dialed in before perm. attaching (which of course would be mandatory!) there are still things that could go wrong after the fact especially with a SBR setup. I guess if you found an ammo that worked great and never deviated from it and made sure not to go crazy with mag dumps to get the temps up too high it would be doable. There is always some risk of something going wrong but if you were careful a lot of potential problems could be mitigated. Obviously not ideal but with no SBR option what else can you do?
Old 03-25-2011, 03:20 PM McMahan is offline  
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DarkHelmet
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Could you do a barrel shroud thats wider than the can and welded on the barrel?

I'm thinking like http://www.tacticalsol.com/products/...category_id=22
Old 03-25-2011, 04:39 PM DarkHelmet is offline  
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McMahan
 
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Could you do a barrel shroud thats wider than the can and welded on the barrel?

I'm thinking like http://www.tacticalsol.com/products/...category_id=22

That would be a way better option if possible, plus you could still use the suppressor on other hosts. You should totally have someone do this for you! I have that SBX barrel on a 10/22 build and it is a sweet solution to avoid the SBR issue.
Old 03-25-2011, 09:09 PM McMahan is offline  
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endscape
 
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Could you do a barrel shroud thats wider than the can and welded on the barrel?

I'm thinking like http://www.tacticalsol.com/products/...category_id=22

That is fucking brilliant. I shall go talk to my gunsmith tomorrow and see if he's up to it. He's a decent machinist from what I've seen, so this should be doable.
Old 03-25-2011, 11:02 PM endscape is offline  
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