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Rancidpunk666
 
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just got back from range, shot over 100 rounds of minimag and velocitors, not one ftf or fte
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Old 02-09-2011, 02:37 PM Rancidpunk666 is offline  
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ritalinjoe
 
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They made a lot of changes to it over the years due to the crap ass feed ramp design. Hopefully you got the latest revision.

The one I fired was probably 5 years ago, so it was probably an earlier revision.
Old 02-09-2011, 02:43 PM ritalinjoe is offline  
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Rancidpunk666
 
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date code is dec 2010
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Old 02-09-2011, 02:44 PM Rancidpunk666 is offline  
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ritalinjoe
 
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Ok, so you'll probably have a couple years of decent performance before you learn to hate that gun.

Old 02-09-2011, 02:45 PM ritalinjoe is offline  
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#19  

McMahan
 
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Originally Posted by Rancidpunk666 View Post
http://firearmsfreedomact.com/

if it is built in state, sold in state and remains in state it's not subject to interestate commerce, thus the atf being a federal gov. organization cannot regulate it.

Yeah man I know what it is and understand the theoretical implications but I am not yet aware of a test case involving NFA and the resulting actions by the feds. If you have a link I would love to see it, otherwise it is just speculation at this point and until a couple of people both on the manufacturer/dealer side and and the end user side risk putting their balls in a sling to take this thing to trial and see where the pieces fall is really just talk at this point.

I think that it would be a losing proposition if it went to trial and obviously so does everyone else or some guys would have tried it by now (again if someone has and you have a source I would like to read up on it). It's like how pot is illegal on the federal level but some states are trying to legalize it within their own jurisdiction. Pot is still illegal on the federal level even if it is "legal" on the state level and if the feds wanted to bust you they could. The thing with pot though is that a lot more people are willing to test the laws since a.) there are way more users of pot than NFA owners and b.) the penalties for pot posession are way less severe. NFA violations are a 10 year in prison / $100,000 fine (unless you're TI) and it is going to take a few ballsy motherfuckers to take this thing all the way to the courts.
Old 02-09-2011, 03:19 PM McMahan is offline  
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Rancidpunk666
 
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i've read somewhere around 15,000 rounds. but i got it for so cheap im glad i just have something fun to plink with. but i really don't think i'm going to hate it, nutn'fancy said so.
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Old 02-09-2011, 03:20 PM Rancidpunk666 is offline  
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Rancidpunk666
 
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Originally Posted by McMahan View Post
Yeah man I know what it is and understand the theoretical implications but I am not yet aware of a test case involving NFA and the resulting actions by the feds. If you have a link I would love to see it, otherwise it is just speculation at this point and until a couple of people both on the manufacturer/dealer side and and the end user side risk putting their balls in a sling to take this thing to trial and see where the pieces fall is really just talk at this point.

I think that it would be a losing proposition if it went to trial and obviously so does everyone else or some guys would have tried it by now (again if someone has and you have a source I would like to read up on it). It's like how pot is illegal on the federal level but some states are trying to legalize it within their own jurisdiction. Pot is still illegal on the federal level even if it is "legal" on the state level and if the feds wanted to bust you they could. The thing with pot though is that a lot more people are willing to test the laws since a.) there are way more users of pot than NFA owners and b.) the penalties for pot posession are way less severe. NFA violations are a 10 year in prison / $100,000 fine (unless you're TI) and it is going to take a few ballsy motherfuckers to take this thing all the way to the courts.

BUT... The Constitution of the U.S. says that the federal goverment cannot regulate something that is not interstate commerce. Montana even has a provision for 5 years in prison if a Federal Agent tries to arrest/convict someone of posessing a atf restricted item if it was built in state, sold in state and remains in state. whats so hard to comprehend about it?

oh also, it's state law, so if i'm abiding by state law that the federal government cannot legaly regulate i still fail to see your argument.
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Old 02-09-2011, 03:22 PM Rancidpunk666 is offline  
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McMahan
 
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BUT... The Constitution of the U.S. says that the federal goverment cannot regulate something that is not interstate commerce. Montana even has a provision for 5 years in prison if a Federal Agent tries to arrest/convict someone of posessing a atf restricted item if it was built in state, sold in state and remains in state. whats so hard to comprehend about it?

oh also, it's state law, so if i'm abiding by state law that the federal government cannot legaly regulate i still fail to see your argument.

Nothing is hard to comprehend about it, I understand what you are saying completely. The problem is that your argument is coming from an ideal world where the constitution is upheld and followed as the law of the land as it pertains to our second (and 10th) amendment rights. The fact that you would mention or think Montana would be able to enforce their little "provision" over the federal govenment shows that you are viewing this situation through rose-colored glasses and are not evaluating things from a real world perspective.

My argument is that until obtaining NFA under the firearms freedom act is tested on a federal level telling people that NFA is legal to obtain in FF states without jumping through the federal hoops is only specualtion. It may be legal on the state level but it is untested and probably not legal on the federal level, whether or not it goes againt this "Constitution" thingy that a lot of the feds don't give two shits about.

The government does things that are unconstitutional all the time. NFA laws are unconstitutional. Doesn't stop them from doing those things or from busting people for not following their rules, does it?

The bottom line is that it is important that people get the correct information on this forum about what they can and can't do. We don't need anyone getting in trouble because they got incorrect advice from here.

Show me a case where the firearms freedom act was tested on the federal level with any NFA item- AOW, SBR, SBS, suppressor, or full auto and was found to be legal and I will gladly STFU. Until then telling people that it's legal to get a suppressor without jumping through the legal hurdles in certain FF states is not giving them the whole story. Until it is tested no one knows for sure but I don't see anyone stepping up to the plate for some reason... If you are so sure it's all good maybe you can lead the charge for the rest of us!

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Old 02-09-2011, 04:17 PM McMahan is offline  
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?psalus
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The government does things that are unconstitutional all the time. NFA laws are unconstitutional. Doesn't stop them from doing those things or from busting people for not following their rules, does it?
That's what I was going to add. The FFA sounds sweet, but I'll be damned if I'm going to be the one to help set precedent.

In any case, w00t for Gemtech, Tactical Solutions and Impact Guns begin about an hour from my house.
Old 02-10-2011, 11:15 AM ?psalus is offline  
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#24  

Rancidpunk666
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McMahan View Post
Nothing is hard to comprehend about it, I understand what you are saying completely. The problem is that your argument is coming from an ideal world where the constitution is upheld and followed as the law of the land as it pertains to our second (and 10th) amendment rights. The fact that you would mention or think Montana would be able to enforce their little "provision" over the federal govenment shows that you are viewing this situation through rose-colored glasses and are not evaluating things from a real world perspective.

My argument is that until obtaining NFA under the firearms freedom act is tested on a federal level telling people that NFA is legal to obtain in FF states without jumping through the federal hoops is only specualtion. It may be legal on the state level but it is untested and probably not legal on the federal level, whether or not it goes againt this "Constitution" thingy that a lot of the feds don't give two shits about.

The government does things that are unconstitutional all the time. NFA laws are unconstitutional. Doesn't stop them from doing those things or from busting people for not following their rules, does it?

The bottom line is that it is important that people get the correct information on this forum about what they can and can't do. We don't need anyone getting in trouble because they got incorrect advice from here.

Show me a case where the firearms freedom act was tested on the federal level with any NFA item- AOW, SBR, SBS, suppressor, or full auto and was found to be legal and I will gladly STFU. Until then telling people that it's legal to get a suppressor without jumping through the legal hurdles in certain FF states is not giving them the whole story. Until it is tested no one knows for sure but I don't see anyone stepping up to the plate for some reason... If you are so sure it's all good maybe you can lead the charge for the rest of us!

I'm still trying to understand why your head is so damn thick you can't let the simple fact of state law through it
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Old 02-10-2011, 12:36 PM Rancidpunk666 is offline  
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#25  

McMahan
 
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I'm still trying to understand why your head is so damn thick you can't let the simple fact of state law through it

Dude my position was clearly stated in the reply you quoted. I think the issue here is that you don't seem to understand the difference between speculating on the legalities of something controversial that was written on the state level and has not yet been tested in the courts (but still treating it as the gospel) versus how the federal goverment actually operates in the real world.

I've already blown my load on this topic, if anyone else would like to jump in I'd be curious to hear other opinions.
Old 02-10-2011, 01:04 PM McMahan is offline  
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#26  

Caelum
 
I looked up tennesse on the website mentioned. TN has an FFA, however the ATF has said, no, thats not a law you can make TN. So, legal or not, I'm not going to try it out.
As we all know the ATF is ridiculously powerful and I'm not going to wait in jail for the supreme court to tell me 10 years later I should never have gone to jail.

Is it legal for the ATF to do that? No.
Does the ATF care? No.
Old 02-10-2011, 01:30 PM Caelum is offline  
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?psalus
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I'm still trying to understand why your head is so damn thick you can't let the simple fact of state law through it
So if you are over 18 and you boink a 16 year old because it's legal in your state, everything's cool?
Old 02-11-2011, 06:11 AM ?psalus is offline  
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L33T_h4x0r_d00d
 
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I'm still trying to understand why your head is so damn thick you can't let the simple fact of state law through it

I'm 100% with McMahan on this. Federal law always trumps state law. The BATFE ttempts to enforce the law the way they interpret it which isnt always the way it was written or intended. Its unfortunate but not many people have the resources to take them to court over it.

There is no way I'd be the first to do it. I'd probably need to see a pretty solid precident in my state before I even thought about it.
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Old 02-12-2011, 04:52 AM L33T_h4x0r_d00d is offline  
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TommyTheCat
 
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lol I misread the title at first and thought you'd lost your mind

Misread it too. A friends dad(whos kind of crazy, Christian tracts and raisins for Halloween crazy) shot a man in Reno(for home defense, not to just watch him die) in the head with a 22 and the guy survived. Turns out he was a drunk member of the flock looking for salvation.
Old 02-12-2011, 05:16 AM TommyTheCat is offline  
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